In my hunt to learn, know, and follow everything about weed I have found an alarming number of people against prop 19. Even stoners that are against this wonderful legalization act.

Today I am going to look at www.Stop19.com this is an allegedly stoner run website that is against prop 19. I will first examine and speak to each of their points, then I will comment on Prop 19 and the position this group takes, finally I will end with what I think the website is really about.

My responses will be in italics.

“How will Prop 19 affect you?

• Are you age 18-20? You will not be allowed to consume cannabis legally under Prop 19. Currently, all you need is a medical recommendation to do so.

Right so Prop 215 is worded loosely so that a 4 year old with a medical marijuana recommendation could receive pot. This places the same restrictions on marijuana as alcohol. Honestly I don’t give a shit about minors. They are going to be buying pot any way and smoking it. This just doesnt seem like a big deal to me. The societal standard (that also makes almost no sense) is that the age requirement for ingesting intoxicating substances is 21. Seems like they are just following a standard that has already been set. Should this one point stop  legalization? NO!

• Do you interact with anyone under age of 21?
You will be looking at up to 6 months in jail for passing them a joint. (If the person is under 18 you will be looking at up to 7 years in prison.)

Good we should be worried about substance abuse by minors. People that break this should go to jail. Isn’t that one of the anti-legalization’s main points? “If marijuana is made legal then kids can easily get their hands on it! We must protect the children!” Okay so Prop 19 has a clause protecting minors. And that’s far from a detriment.

• Do you live in the same “space” and a minor? (Space could mean anything from the same house to an entire apartment complex.) You will not be allowed to consume cannabis.

Granted I haven’t read anything about this in the actual Prop 19 content, but the whole apartment complex thing is nothing more than a bullshit fear tactic. This point of their argument is nothing more than fear mongering.

• Do you rent your home? Prop 19 will only allow you to grow cannabis if you have permission from your landlord. Due to the risks involved, many (if not most) California landlords do not allow it. How is this legalization?

Okay… and how is protecting the property and right of property owners a bad thing? It doesn’t state you can’t smoke it only that you can’t grow it. Break ins and theft are a huge concern and problem when growing marijuana. Fire hazards as well with amateur wiring and poor ventilation leading to fire hazards. Not wanting to deal with that risk is the right of any landlord in my opinion.

• Do you grow cannabis with a doctor recommendation? Prop 19 will likely be interpreted by law enforcement and judges to limit your grow space to 5′x5′.

Limiting grow space is acceptable in my opinion. and 5x5 is not that bad. If you use a 1’ diameter grow pot you can have 5 pots growing. My concern is the mothers. What if I want to have 3 strains with mothers does that mean I can only grow 2 plants at a time? Well it would be tricky but I think you could cram 3 mothers in a 1 foot space than have 4 plants growing. Either way I don’t see this as a major issue and I think it isn’t a good enough reason to vote no. Anti legalization proponents frequently claim that prop 19 will will lead to huge pot farms with acres etc. Well first of all this stops that worry. Second of all, THAT’S ALREADY HAPPENING. A Colorado county is allowing a huge 50+ acre farm be turned into a marijuana growing facility. And most people are aware that Oakland is doing a similar thing with four facilities.

• Do you provide your extra medical cannabis to dispensaries? It will be a crime to do so if Prop 19 passes. In addition, large Oakland growers and tobacco companies will take control of the market and push you out.

I heavily doubt big tobacco and large Oakland growers will push the little guys out. I severally doubt their ability to produce high quality cannabis in the amounts that small time growers do. You get high grade and quality sensimellia (seedless bud) from small growers. And in huge variety. It will be a matter of ordering a bud light at the bar and a micro brew. Certainly not enough of an argument to make me vote no.

• Do you currently have to use your medical cannabis anywhere but home? Prop 19 will prevent patients from using their medicine anywhere in pubic. Which for many people with illnesses is not always possible.

Right just as you aren’t allowed to drink in public (most states) you can smoke in public. But here we run into another fear technique. Public legally refers to public property. So basically no joint smoking on a street corner. But places like hooka lounges or bars or pot coffee shops are all considered private property. And what stops anyone from carrying around a brownie. Maybe legislation later on can be approved that allows those that have medical necessity be allowed to toke in public.

• Do you sell your extra medical cannabis to other medical patients? Prop 19 will make this practice illegal. Even if you are only selling it to cover your growing cost.

Okay great it’s illegal. So what? Are you really not going to sell to your friends that have insomnia or cancer that are wanting to buy from you? Are they really going to rat you out? Are you going to get caught for doing so. Answer all of those is no.

• Do you currently enjoy the use of cannabis free from Government interference? Not only will the Government impose excessive taxes under Prop 19, but the federal government will likely respond with unprecedented action against California cannabis users. “The federal Controlled Substances Act makes it a felony to grow or sell cannabis. California can repeal its own marijuana laws, leaving enforcement to the feds. But it can’t legalize a federal felony. Therefore, any grower or seller paying California taxes on marijuana sales or filing pot-related California regulatory paperwork would be confessing, in writing, to multiple federal crimes.”

Okay I’m going to break this one down step by step. Taxes are a necessary evil that everyone hates but we all need. If you want to buy marijuana and smoke it you can be taxed. Who cares? Alcohol and tobacco are both heavily taxed, we should be happy we got along this far without being taxed. Oh and if you don’t want to be taxed then you should just grow in your 5’x5’ space :)

Again more fear here Obama’s administration stated that the laws of states with regards to marijuana will be respected. That is if a state legalizes medical marijuana then the feds won’t go busting dispensaries like they did under the Bush administration. So it is safe to say that these laws will be respected as well.

1. Proposition 19 isn’t really legalization. It only allows possession of up to one ounce of cannabis. Under current California law, an ounce or less of pot isn’t an arrestable offense. And soon this amount will be a simple civil infraction. Prop 19 doesn’t make any improvements to decriminalization or prop 215.

Sure it does. It doesn’t make me have to go to a doctor and lie about having some disease so I can smoke weed. It allows and pushes for greater commercial sales of cannabis which is always a good thing. It takes the first step to full legalization and provides California and its citizens to be pioneers in re-legalization, hopefully getting the ball rolling with the rest of the nation.

2. Prop 19 creates several new cannabis related crimes with extremely severe penalties. Don’t pass a joint to a 17 year old, you will be looking at a max of 7 years in state prison, seriously.

Yeah seriously don’t. Fuck the 7 years how bout a 17 year old has no business smoking. Now let’s look at this logically. Dealer passes to 17 year old. 17 yo goes and rats dealer gets busted. Similar to alcohol throw a party underage people get drunk you’re responsible and the rat you in a heartbeat. Now compare to the parental introduction. Man sitting with his son on the back porch gives his son a sip of beer. Yes illegal. But under the supervision of his parent and initiated by that parent to teach what ever lesson or remove mystery whatever. But in my opinion this isn’t a part of Prop 19 that makes me vote no.

3. Prop 19 is solely designed to allow large scale cannabis production by politically connected corporations. Oakland has already started the process to license a Prop 19 Cartel mega-grow.

So legalize it so anyone over the age of 21 with a couple hundred bucks can grow their own. And yeah this is probably being pushed by companies and well connected people. It is generally how the world works. I mean for fucks sake marijuana was made illegal that very way. A well connected lumber company owner pushed for prohibition when cannabis threatened his industry as the best paper supplier.

4. Most legal experts agree that Prop 19 is poorly written and will leave police and judges to enforce it at their discretion. For example, consuming cannabis would be illegal in the same “space” as a minor. Police and judges are free to interpret the word “space” to mean the same room, house, or entire apartment complex.

Just as Prop 215 is poorly written and allows for mass interpretation. Pot calling the calling the cannabis green if you ask me.

Seriously though. Unless they can give me something more extensive than the space issue I’m not buying it. No names of “legal experts,” no mention of other areas of poorly written legislation. Now some may think this is me just nit picking but its not. They purposely excluded that information because it doesn’t exist. It’s the same story we’ve heard before from anti-legalization. “Pot causes cancer.” “Pot is the most addictive drug ever.” “Pot kills brain cells.” All with no evidence or citations. Why? Because they are lies. Not saying this is. At least not yet. But if they aren’t providing actual citations it’s probably cause they don’t exist.

5. There is no need to rush into a law that will be difficult to change. There are better full legalization laws, including one set to be on the ballot in 2012.

Great point no need to rush. I respect that. And no link to the 2012 prop makes me think its bullshit but none the less good point. But I don’t think Prop 19 is a bad law.

6. Prop 19 will lead to the walmartization of the cannabis industry. And unfortunately, this will result in lower quality and fixed prices. Limited competition and government control will allow large scale growers to determine prices and dictate quality standards (or lack thereof).

Oh god. Cannabis isn’t like a retail store. It’s not like cannabis is going to suddenly become all regs and you can’t find dank. Here’s the truth on it. Big Tobacco and large companies are going to pour a huge amount of cash into the cannabis industry. They will make a ton of money. And for your average, just want a joint smoker it will be acceptable. But as for people like me, all day everyday tokers. We will be shopping for quality just as we do now. “Limited Competition” you’ve got to be joking… Weed can be grow in your house and CHEAPLY! How the hell will anyone stop that kind of competition.

7. Local governments will control the taxation, production, and distribution of cannabis. This is a touchy political issue; most local politicians won’t risk a backlash by allowing dispensaries in their city. This means many people will have to travel long distances or break the law to purchase cannabis.

I haven’t seen the legislation on this so I can’t say if they are lying or not.

8. Prop 19 will likely supersede prop 215, adversely affecting medical cannabis users by dictating grow size, possession amount, patient to patient sales, and location of use.

This is bullshit. Medical use will begin to actually provide medical marijuana to people who legitimately need it rather than every joe that wants a joint. It will provide needed restrictions to Prop 215 that were intentionally left open ended. Wanna talk about poorly written legislation look at 215. It’s a good law. But these people want to talk about how Prop 19 is poorly written, so is 215.

9. Unbiased cannabis activists do NOT support Prop 19. This includes the late Jack Herer and the co-author of prop 215, Dennis Peron.

Both people I think have some bias. Hell Peron wrote 215 doesn’t that make him biased?

10. The federal government has decided to not prosecute medical cannabis users. This will not be the case if Prop 19 passes. Many people believe that the passage of Prop 19 will bring an aggressive response from the feds, perhaps putting medical users at risk of losing access to medicine.

“The federal government has decided to not prosecute medical cannabis users. This will not be the case if Prop 19 passes.” Where the fuck do they get this bit from? First of all such laws don’t go into affect immediately and there will be plenty of prior warning before any crack down occurs. And what the hell ever happen to being soldiers in the drug war and standing up for what is right?

HYPE: Under Prop 19 you can’t be fired for using cannabis.
TRUTH: Most California employees can be fired at any time for any reason except their race, gender, age, or sexual orientation, PERIOD.

Yup even with medical cannabis you can be fired.

HYPE: We must legalize now, or it may never happen!
TRUTH: Real legalization is on the horizon. Better written laws that are actually designed to promote freedom will be on the ballot in the near future.

Real legalization has seemed like its been on the horizon for ever. That’s because it has been. Stoners get too optimistic and think its just around the corner. The truth is Prop 19 passage would be a huge step in further legalization.

HYPE: Prop 19 won’t affect medical cannabis patients.
TRUTH: Under the initiative, medical users will not be exempt from the growing limitation of a 5′x5′ area, per PROPERTY (not per person). Prop 19 will also prevent patients from medicating in the same “space” as a minor or in public places. Medical growers will also have to seek permission from their landlord to grow, which is almost always impossible.

Last time I read up on this it WAS per person so either it has changed or they are full of shit. I mean what if I own 5 properties can I grow on each? Other points have already been covered

HYPE: Prop 19 will allow you to purchase cannabis legally.
TRUTH: Under Prop 19, you will only be able to legally purchase cannabis from licensed dispensaries. If your city decides to not allow such dispensaries, you’re out of luck. (It will be a crime to purchase from your friends, neighbors, etc.)

Last time I read the legislation this wasn’t true. It would provide for commercial sale of cannabis.

HYPE: Prop 19 will regulate cannabis like alcohol.
TRUTH: Prop 19 limits the possession of cannabis to under on ounce and dictates that it may not be consumed in the same “space” and a minor. This is obviously nothing like the regulation of alcohol.

Similar yes the same no. They nailed that on the head

HYPE: Prop 19 is FOR the people.
TRUTH: Prop 19 was placed on the ballot by a group who stands to make huge profits if it passes. This group invested $1.4 million of their own money into the measure — Do you really believe they did this for the benefit of the cannabis community?

No they didn’t. Do I think it benefits the cannabis community yes.

HYPE: Prop 19 is a movement BY the people.
TRUTH: A month following former state Senator Don Perata’s endorsement of Prop 19, the Prop 19 Cartel gave $10,000 to a committee head by Perata. What’s more, if Don Perata is successful in his run for Mayor of Oakland, he will be conveniently positioned to oversee the large scale manufacturing of cannabis in the city. (Prop 19 allows cities to grant valuable growing permits to anyone they wish, including political contributors like the Prop 19 Cartel.) Does this sound like a movement by the people?

Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me with no evidence. Not that this isn’t possible, but for group that only has one damn video as any legitimate evidence I’m not putting my eggs in their basket.

HYPE: Any type of legalization is a step in the right direction.
TRUTH: Prop 19 is one step forward and ten steps back. This initiative is vague and will allow police and judges to enforce it however they wish. Prop 19 will lock us into a BAD law that could permanently damage the effort to fully legalize.

Nothing can damage the effort to fully legalize imo. More scare tactics. Police and judges could have interpreted 215 any way they like as well.

HYPE: ‘Yes on 19′ claims that Prop 19 will “protect medical cannabis patients rights.”
TRUTH: Medical patients already have unprecedented access to high quality cannabis. Prop 19 will likely force a crackdown on marijuana by the Federal Government, perhaps jeopardizing prop 215. Prop 19 will also likely bring large scale cannabis manufacturing by tobacco companies who will lower quality to maximize profits. These companies will also likely add addictive and poisonous additives to cannabis, just like they do with tobacco.

So don’t buy that weed. Plain and simple.

HYPE: Prop 19 will end the War on Drugs by legalizing cannabis.
TRUTH: Prop 19 doesn’t fully legalize cannabis. It allows adults over 21 to possess up to one ounce. Under current California law, you can NOT be arrested for having this vary same amount. So the War on Drugs will continue, if not escalate under Prop 19.

Dear god they don’t know when to stop. Alcohol isn’t fully legal, tobacco isn’t either for good reason. Nothing will eliminate the Drug war, that is at least not for a very long time. But this IS a good step in the right direction.

I honestly think this is a site backed by anti legalization money or just a complete front by them. Do I think there are stoners out there in Cali that thinks that prop 19 is a threat? Yes. But these points are either poorly supported or just good old fashion bullshit.

I’m going to look up prop 19 and get the actual legal wording and break it all the way down for my next post.

Till then peace, love, and toke.
TCK